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Hey you guys really changed a lot of minds in this thread

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Originally Posted By: [LoD
Godsmak]Hey you guys really changed a lot of minds in this thread


I don't think anyone goes into an internet forum argument believing they're actually going to change someone's mind. I consider it a relief from boredom more than anything.

lol @ Outrage's video. Solid support for your argument. Here, I found a video that's equally relevant to my position.





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I'm actually on the fence on the issue, always looking for a good reason to lean one side or the other. Obviously most people go on the internet to argue what they already believe with no intention to hear the other side out, why i dont know, you just end up looking like a tool. But these arguements are always great when they throw up stats and views that otherwise wouldnt be seen or heard without the internet.

My position is, the current way things are working... are not working. We have insanely high gun crimes across the country. We can point the blame on 2nd ammendement, our culture, media or history. But the fact is, with the current structure in place, its not working. Something needs to change. And arguing to keep everything the same is just stupid. Its crazy easy to get a weapon illegally anywhere i've lived. and 9 times out of 10 the gun was stolen from someone who legally purchased it.

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I don't really care about this topic one way or another, I mean I have an opinion on it but I'm not passionate about my opinion enough to campaign for some sort of agenda.

Some things to consider:
Saying owning X amount of guns or type of guns or whatever should be punishable, because of the actions people are taking with them who acquire them illegally does not change anything. It only creates a penalty for non-inclusive parties. It's setting an expectation that if X didn't own a gun, Y wouldn't have had the opportunity to commit a crime because he wouldn't have been able to steal it from X in the first place.

Here's the same idea, but with different objects used to commit different crimes;
We should really limit how many cars people have because there's too many cars being stolen, then used to commit crimes. If X didn't own a car, Y couldn't have stolen it and used it when he robbed a convenience store.

On a separate point, if you over-regulate guns you're effectively doing nothing about the violent actions people are taking that you are trying to correct. This is very close to creating a "War on Guns". It's as silly as the "War on Drugs" or "War on Terrorism". The idea that some guy who is willing to commit a violent crime is taking into consideration the consequences of his actions, and what is going to happen afterwards is absurd.

Criminals do what they do out of desperation, or something going on with the wiring in their heads (or combination of both). They are going to attempt to accomplish whatever it is they've decided is a solution to their problem regardless of what tools, or strategy they've devised, to do that with.

Take a look at this:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

In this current decade so far (2010-2013) the year with the most amount of murders, is less than any 1 year worth of murders from 2000-2009. The year with the highest total murders between 2000 and 2009 is only higher than 2 of the years in the previous decade (1990-1999) which has the highest annual murder count in 1 year for the last 53 years (obviously due to gangster rap). 1979-1982, and 1986-1995 are the only times we've seen murders reach 20k+. Since 1996 the cases of murder have steadily declined with very little fluctuation.

Regulation of guns is not going to correct social issues. Making stiffer penalties for committing violent crimes is not going to make someone willing to carry out harmful actions on other people reconsider what they're about to do. It's only going to affect what happens after the fact. The only thing making guns 'more illegal' does, is make people who weren't doing anything illegal before, a criminal. It does nothing to people who currently own illegal guns, or who will continue to acquire guns by illegal means. There are only a few ways you could ever expect there to be any impact on this, and one of them includes a much more broadened Patriot Act. That means a lot less privacy and a lot more intrusive hassle for everyone, the only exclusions of transparency of course existing in military, police, government, or people of extreme power. No more secrets, everyone knows everything about everybody. This is extremely unrealistic and undoubtedly regulation of this would be impossible.

Another alternative is these 9:10 illegal guns you're talking about; tell on them. Authorities can't be everywhere and know everything, they can only react to what they know. If you want things around you to change, you have to change what's ok and not ok in your book. Sure, no one likes a rat. Far fewer people like other people killing people. Social issues like this can only change if there are peers who are aware of tendencies and actions of a person and either influence them to change, or tell someone who can do something about it. If by your own admittance this doesn't correct anything, then we agree that this is a social issue and not a system one so regulation is out the window.

If I wanted to take the time, I believe I could spin just as many "facts" and useless information and shitty opinions to contrive an argument that; because in 1996 the standardization of consumer internet payment methods were changed to a flat fee, and accessibility to computers/phones/consoles with internet access is becoming more and more prevalent over time; would-be violent criminals are exposed to more alternatives or constructive practices they could be doing to expand their opportunities or get out of feeling "stuck", rather than following the footsteps of other violent criminals. Meaning the answer to violent crimes is really accessibility to quality education and information.



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Good post Dhal.

Originally Posted By: [LoD
Coneitic]Its crazy easy to get a weapon illegally anywhere i've lived. and 9 times out of 10 the gun was stolen from someone who legally purchased it.


Kind of going off of what Dhal said, what LAW would keep people from ILLEGALLY STEALING guns from someone who legally purchased them?



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Don't run please don't run!!!!


AAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted By: [LoD
Blazzen]Good post Dhal.




+1




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i dunno, isnt there already a law against stealing guns?

Just saying if the legally purchased handguns weren't available to be stolen.. would be insanely harder to get an illegal handgun. People do a B&E, steal a 9 and sell it for 300$ quick. I would think if the average negro had to get his strap from an arms dealer bringing in a glock on a boat, it would be a lot more expensive and harder to obtain.

Kinda like weed, can get a dime of any white boy with a fitted cap. A lot harder to find a pound of afghan.

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So that starts with the B&E. How do we stop that? Ban windows and doors?



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remove the legal weapon they will steal, cant shoot people with tv's and speakers

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