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Sonya]Looks like we've almost got this hashed out. This made me LOL
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Sonyas 1 liners are my favorite.
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Harry] Vermithrax]In the event I ever do get into a situation where one of "the crazies" opens fire in a public place, I and anyone else around me would be happy I have my concealed handgun on me. Doesn't everyone want to be the "hero" that happens to be in the right place in the right time? Aren't you a little too old to believe in miracles? From the top of your head...name 5 accidents where such things have happened and the hero saved the day. Just 1-2 months ago you had a shooting next/in your building...what did you do tough guy? I'm sure your coworkers were all happy that you had a gun...all the long hours while yall were hiding in the closet and waiting for the cops to do their job. Have you ever been shot at? Will you keep your cool and be able to draw and shoot back or pee in your pants? Just saying, next time you go to the range include this in your training to be prepared. I'm not gonna try and change your mind on whether or not "free weaponz fo yall" in us is good or bad. Plenty of better man have tried and failed in this thread alone. Was just saying my opinion, though I should've known better. Moxie]harry is just mad the only thing they get to concealed carry in Bulgaria is the crippling sadness of living in Bulgaria. Nobody here have to conceal carry this. If you don't like it where you are - you move away. 2 mil bulgarians(mostly under 35 years old) in the last 25 years did that. I will spare you the googling - this equals about 20-25% of our population living abroad. For future consumption: http://gunssavelives.net/browse-stories/http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?136-True-Tales-of-Self-Defensehttps://www.usconcealedcarry.com/category/true-stories/http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspxYou get the idea. There are hundreds of stories out there, often weekly. If you don't like these particular sources, many of them link un-biased news outlets. You can argue until you're blue in the face about the politics and the whys. But the reality is no one protects your interests like yourself. Not going to trust my life to a cop or some person I don't know I can rely on. It's significantly more important to me than to them. Hence, I carry every day. Maybe just a pocket pistol pea shooter .380, more often something that is capable of half inch holes. Even in places where the rules (not laws) tell me I shouldn't. I've been shot at (mil experience, most of it was indirect mortar fire though). I take formal training courses most years (for instance took a carbine operator course this year, signed up for a handgun course next year, really want to do another shoot house), not to mention time just by myself or with my wife or friends. No one knows exactly how they will react in a fast paced, highly volatile, and intense situation, all you can do is train train train and expect those skills to assert themselves when the time comes (but if you are serious about really deploying a weapon, get trained often and repeatedly). There are a lot of guys who take their well being and those of their loved ones seriously. Don't shit on that. If it ain't for you, it ain't for you. Just blow the horn of gondor and hope they get there soon enough to save your ass.
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Deadly Matter] For future consumption: http://gunssavelives.net/browse-stories/http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?136-True-Tales-of-Self-Defensehttps://www.usconcealedcarry.com/category/true-stories/http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspxYou get the idea. There are hundreds of stories out there, often weekly. If you don't like these particular sources, many of them link un-biased news outlets. You can argue until you're blue in the face about the politics and the whys. But the reality is no one protects your interests like yourself. Not going to trust my life to a cop or some person I don't know I can rely on. It's significantly more important to me than to them. Hence, I carry every day. Maybe just a pocket pistol pea shooter .380, more often something that is capable of half inch holes. Even in places where the rules (not laws) tell me I shouldn't. I've been shot at (mil experience, most of it was indirect mortar fire though). I take formal training courses most years (for instance took a carbine operator course this year, signed up for a handgun course next year, really want to do another shoot house), not to mention time just by myself or with my wife or friends. No one knows exactly how they will react in a fast paced, highly volatile, and intense situation, all you can do is train train train and expect those skills to assert themselves when the time comes (but if you are serious about really deploying a weapon, get trained often and repeatedly). There are a lot of guys who take their well being and those of their loved ones seriously. Don't shit on that. If it ain't for you, it ain't for you. Just blow the horn of gondor and hope they get there soon enough to save your ass. A quick browse trough all these links told me what I already knew...concealed carry helps mostly when it comes down to small crimes against stupid criminals that are looking to steal/rape/assault/etc. It doesn't do much help with the thousands of murders in your country. You're missing the big picture...people are loosing their lives. All these dead guys doesn't care that hundreds of people didn't get their $100/tv stolen.
Last edited by [LoD]Harry; 11/19/14 07:07 AM.
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On the other hand...~10 mil total crimes per year.
How many happened because people have access to guns and to carry around freely?
You honestly think the good outweights the bad? Leave your selfishness out of it. You personaly might feel safe but think big.
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Harry]On the other hand...~10 mil total crimes per year.
How many happened because people have access to guns and to carry around freely?
You honestly think the good outweights the bad? Leave your selfishness out of it. You personaly might feel safe but think big. What are you even talking about, Harry? Your premise is that the good (feeling safe by having a firearm) does not outweigh "the bad", but you don't articulate what "the bad" is. Based on your statement that "~10 mil total crimes per year" (is that globally???), I will assume you mean "the bad" is being a victim of a violent crime involving a firearm. Fact is, the ratio of guns to people in the US is nearly 1:1. Estimates are between 270 million to 310 million firearms in the US. Yet the chance of being murdered by a firearm in 2011 was about .0029% (that's 8500 firearm murders in 2011 out of 311 million people). So you tell me, how pervasive is the gun violence problem in America, really? Murders by firearm don't even rank in the top 20 causes of death in the US. There were about 416,000 victims of firearm crime in the US in 2011. When compared with 300 million guns in circulation, I ask you again, how pervasive is the problem, really? No sir, the good does NOT outweigh the bad. Just because a few nutjobs go postal and kill a few people every now and again doesn't mean nobody should have guns. That's fucking stupid. And has already been said 50 times in this thread, like the criminals are going to give a FUCK about anti gun laws. With 300 million guns in circulation, how hard do you think it's going to be for a criminal go get a gun if all the law abiding citizens turn theirs over? Faulty argument, all the way through.
Last edited by [LoD]Vermithrax; 11/19/14 07:54 AM.
 
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15k murders per year in USA for the last 15 years - 8500 firearm murders. That's more than half.
10 mil crimes per year IN USA ALONE, not worldwide. 416k victims of firearm crimes.
300 mil guns - if you yourself own 10 guns for example then there's 9 people out there that doesn't have one. So it's not near 1:1 ratio.
The arguments are not faulty, the possible solutions that you can think of are. You need a radical change, which you or your government won't like for obvious reasons. Exporting war and making bilions while at it can not happen without a gun loving population.
Just yesterday your DoD announced a plan to significantly increase the military spendings for the next 10 years. So...yeah.
Last edited by [LoD]Harry; 11/19/14 08:35 AM.
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Am I selfish with my own life? You're goddamn skippy. The bastards are going to have to work at it. No different than in a game we play. I'm going to sell high and I put in the work to make sure of it.
You told the numbers for the US. How about for all of Europe? They are about the same size. Compare apples to apples. A single state in the US is comparable to most countries there.
For some reason you get the idea I can't or don't think big picture. Not sure why. If you could guarantee me 100% that there would never come a time I may need to defend myself and could take every single gun out of the US and end all weapon related violence, I'd give up my firearms. Then and only then though. But the reality is that there zero feasible ways of doing that. None.
Going geopolitical here, but if the US didn't feel like it had to and was expected to police the world in some way, maybe we wouldn't have the military that we do. But it is expected of us. And it makes people think twice before throwing down, knowing we'll shoot back. Kinda like why mass murderers kill themselves before the police get there. They don't want resistance. Wolves go after sheep, not dogs. Fuck if I or my country is going to be a sheep.
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God, made the mistake of reading some of this again. Lost whatever faith in humanity and common sense I had regained since last time.
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