the more important topic is why the fuck are our federal tax dollars being spent to buy land in a STATE to help save some fucking turtles. just more waste. If it is so important for the state of Nevada and its residents to save these turtles they should levy state taxes for this, not my federal tax dollars. this is just one example of many on how our taxes are misused and wasted regularly because some state senator will only sign a bill if shit like this gets put in it.
two, it is clearly a gross misuse of federal power and money (again tax dollars) to have the BLM show up with men armed with full tactical military grade gear to take someones property due to said tax evasion. Which they may or may not even have the right to do in the first place. Bundy is claiming taxation without representation. That has to be fought out in court, not on his property with armed soldiers.
Three, why the fuck does the BLM have military grade weapons and armor? And why do they have checkpoints with said armed soldiers all over the area, asking people for papers and proof that they live in the area. last time I checked Nevada is in America, not Afghanistan. Didn't something very similar to this get a lot of media attention due to some states, namely Arizona asking people for peoples IDs for voting and during traffic stops to prove citizenship?
four, How does the Federal government think that it is acceptable or legal to create free speech zones on this guys property? or anywhere for that matter. I'm pretty sure the entire US is considered a free speech zone. There are very specific limitations to this, like using a bull horn outside of a hospital at 3am.
five, why does the BLM think it is okay to destroy this mans property? cattle, water pipes etc. If they were justified in collecting taxes from this guy, they just wasted more money by killing cattle that they could have sold....
I could go on and on but I'm sure the point has been made.
Radical Libertarian fringe groups unfortunately have a louder voice then Gary Johnson and Ron Paul in this social media world. Mainstream Libertarians should be fighting tooth and nail to separate themselves from the Tea Party Patriots and talk radio puppets.
It's fascinating that a large group of people distrust newspapers and television media but will believe anything they see on a youtube video. Just go back and watch the pro Bundy videos that were posted here. They all contain flat out lies and misinformation.
"The sun smiles on his leaves, and his photosynthesis is without flaw!"
Last thing I wanted to do was get dragged into this but alcohol fixed that pretty quick. Most of my friends are Ron Paul cultists and I get annoyed at how quickly they get wrapped up in the hollow pageantry of the anti-government thing. A little race baiting and suddenly they're furiously defending the reputation of a man they never should have associated themselves with in the first place. As my ineptly written wall of text said earlier, we can have that race discussion, it's a subject that interests me, but no libertarian should be having that discussion in the context of the ramblings of some old man who they never should have white knighted in the first place.
Hexen] but no libertarian should be having that discussion in the context of the ramblings of some old man who they never should have white knighted in the first place.
This is pretty much why I haven't been back to this thread. I got real busy at work for about a week and then by the time I had free time to come back, that guy made those awful slavery comments and now I regret ever having sided with him. Should have listened to Rok on that one.
What an ignorant waste of a human being. Compared to what this dude said, Donald Sterling's comments look like kid's bedtime stories.
the more important topic is why the fuck are our federal tax dollars being spent to buy land in a STATE to help save some fucking turtles.
Do I really need to give you a lesson on how the food chain works? Do you even understand the ecological harm 900 head of cattle does to an already fragile desert environment? 15,999 public ranchers pay the fee because they understand that the land needs to be managed if they are going to have enough food for the cattle to graze on in the coming years.
Bundy would be out of business if not for the BLM. They kill the wild horses that eat the brush his cattle need. If the BLM didn't manage the land then Bundys cattle would starve. Had you done the most basic fact checking, you would already know this.
Originally Posted By: Langresser
Bundy is claiming taxation without representation.
Once again, no he is not. Obs already corrected you on this.
Originally Posted By: Langresser
it is clearly a gross misuse of federal power and money (again tax dollars) to have the BLM show up with men armed with full tactical military grade gear to take someones property due to said tax evasion.
Bundy will be held responsible for the cost of the roundup, not taxpayers. Law enforcement tends to enforce the law, that's what we pay them for. When a group of Militia members say they have guns and will fight back, I would imagine coming unarmed would be foolish.
Free speech zones are nothing new. They use them during political conventions. I don't see any uproar when the RNC puts protesters in caged fences, so I have to believe that this outrage is manufactured.
Originally Posted By: Langresser
If they were justified in collecting taxes from this guy, they just wasted more money by killing cattle that they could have sold....
Rounding up 900 cattle is a massive operation and I expect they had issues. Two of Bundys cattle were killed, one for safety of the workers, and 1 because it broke its back during the round up.
Pretending that the BLM is an evil operation because they broke a water pipe is some great hyperbole though. Please keep going, this is fun.
"The sun smiles on his leaves, and his photosynthesis is without flaw!"
anyone that thinks a federal agency that is not the FBI should be running around the united states with military grade gear has some issues. If the BLM believed there would be armed citizens and a possible confrontation, they should have consulted with local law enforcement, not show up to an already tense situation and then make it worse.
I do not give two shits about Bundy or his ideals, I'm trying to illustrate that the government is and has been out of control. They continue to waste our money. There is no reason why my tax dollars are being used to fund state issues, in states that I do not occupy, do not or have never visited. Again, if Nevada want to protect fucking turtles let them do it. We now live in a country where something like 48% of the population is on some form of government subsidy, our debt is very close if it has not already outpaced our GDP, Have we reached 20 Trillion yet, I gave up keeping count..... How do people think that this is not an issue. The dollar will collapse, the fed will print more money, we will have massive inflation, and the country will be in the shitter.
It amazes me that the hot topics on this Bundy fuck are that he is a racist, and is guilty of tax evasion. How about going after the multi billion in IRS scams that illegals use to get money from the IRS.... I think they were averaging something like 17K a year per person exploiting this, in refunds exploiting the child tax credit. All because the IRS allows tax id numbers if you don't have a ssn.... They have known about this for years and wont change it. There is a great news expose on this. It may have even been from a MSNBC reporter for all of you fox haters.
The only reason that I think this is a big deal, it brings attention to an entity that pretty much thinks it can do whatever the fuck it wants to these days. Last time I checked we are the UNITED STATES of America, not the Federation of America. I am big on state rights and personal liberties. You need states to keep the Fed in check, just like the people should keep the states in check. Currently, namely due to our fucked tax system, the states are beholden to the Fed because the Federal gov promises states funding, and at least 48% of the people are beholden to the Federal gov because they are getting some kind of subsidy. How is this not bad? How can anyone regardless of party affiliation and works, not be pissed about this? I just watched the IRS withdraw 55k out of my savings account on the 15th, that fucking sucks.... So we have a federal government that can bribe the states and the people to get and do what it wants when it wants. You see it all the time, the federal government threatening to cut state funding if the state does not comply with its wishes.
Before Federal taxes were implemented in the 40's I think, the states collected taxes and gave portions of that to the Federal government. The way it was intended to be.... The states control the Federal government and the people control the states. Not a fucking hard concept of checks and balances.
It just occurred to me how stupid the BLM is, on top of everything else. They won the court case of tax evasion, correct? so why not wait until he sells the cattle and then have the IRS or whoever legally garnish his accounts. Or have local law enforcement arrest him for tax evasion Wesley Snipes!!. that's a new thought there... As mentioned earlier, it is no easy task trying to herd 400 cattle, so why the fuck try to do it in the first placed if there are other easier, legal options that can be used to take action.
NEWS Story, local law enforcement arrest Nevada cattle rancher for 20 years of tax evasion
vs.
The BLM has an armed stand off with Nevada community over tax evasion charges of rancher Cliven Bundy.
First headline you will probably be like okay next story, second headline, wtf who are the BLM why are they wearing tactical assault gear. carrying $5000+ rifles with eotechs and all the trimmings. Wearing Level III plates... which by the way are designed to take 6-7 rounds from a .308. If you think you need that kind of gear in the US to collect taxes your not doing something right. Thats another thing, wasn't there a story recently about IRS agents carrying pistols and assault rifles? Scaring the fuck out of people that they were auditing... I'll have to look that one up again.
There are just some things that it is not a good idea to do, even though you may have legal recourse to do so. Like be a German hiker and accidentally walk into an afghanies poppy field. Guess what, your probably and in the instance I'm talking about are now fertilizer for that guys poppy plants. I was on the helo with the guys wife going out to COP Fazabad (not spelled right) but north eastern Afghanistan so she should see her dumb late husbands remains. Just like it is probably not a good idea to show up with armed men threatening use of force in a rural area where everyone is family and not expect there to be a standoff. so again use some common sense, the BLM should have never brought armed men to this guys ranch. Other avenues should have been used to get the tax money from this guy.
Roksmokar] It's fascinating that a large group of people distrust newspapers and television media but will believe anything they see on a youtube video. Just go back and watch the pro Bundy videos that were posted here. They all contain flat out lies and misinformation.
I do not give two shits about Bundy or his ideals...
No one did. You guys used him as a tool to promote your anti-government speech and it failed hard. Since you guys love posting your propaganda videos, why don't you take the time to learn about a true hero cattle rancher.
Skip to 6:20 if you are impatient, or just skip it all together if you want to remain uninformed on the subject of grazing fees and land management.
"The sun smiles on his leaves, and his photosynthesis is without flaw!"
