Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Concealed Carry Now Legal in California

"Loss of rights due to felony conviction takes many forms. In the United States this includes disenfranchisement, exclusion from Jury duty, and loss of the right to possess firearms."

"Felony disenfranchisement is excluding persons otherwise eligible to vote from voting"

Does that make all voting americans hypocrits because they believe in the voting process, but prohibit felons in some states from taking part?

Felons do not deserve civil rights. There are some exceptions and the system has a process for those felons to restore the rights they have lost.



So, all trials involving a felony should be declared a mistrial because felons can't sit on a jury. Therefor the citizen isn't being judged by his peers....Isn't that the arguement they use based on race all the time?

late to the party but I like it man.

That.... shit. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds like a fairly well reasoned and logical argument.

Sonya-chu, we need you!

Yeah I know this thread kinda died, but I want to bitch.

So yesterday I was driving in Indianapolis in my truck. I got pulled over, was kinda curious as I was going maybe 3 miles over the speed limit in a 40 mph zone.

Sat there for ~10 minutes before the state trooper sauntered up to the window. He asked me for the usual papers and told me I was stopped because my license plate was illegible, had a bunch of mud on it (farm/work truck so yeah, it can get pretty filthy and I just didn't realize the plate was covered).

So I wait for another 15 minutes (timed it this time as I was getting irritated sitting so long). The trooper comes back up to my car and asks me if I'm carrying a handgun. In Indiana when they run the driver's license it'll show if they have a License to Carry Handgun (LTCH). I told him yes I was and have my license on me and can show it to him, it's in my wallet. He orders me to hand my handgun over to him immediately.

In my head I'm thinking that's the last thing I'm ever going to do, draw my pistol from a completely safe position and hand it over to a cop. WAAAAY too many scenarios where he thinks I'm moving too fast or trying to get a bead on him or whatever other bullshit. I tell him I do not consent to a search or seizure. He tries to reach through my window to get at my right hip to get the gun, which he can't do. I'm super uncomfortable because this dude is reaching completely across me trying to grab the gun.

I tell him again I have a license to carry the handgun and can show it to him (the Supreme Court has a decision that once the license is shown, all police transactions about the firearm are to cease).

Since he can't get the gun, he orders me to place my hands out the window, then orders me to exit the vehicle. I told him I do not consent, but will comply. I then ask for a supervising officer to attend the scene. I get out of the truck. He's getting real edgy, has his hand on his gun. The kid is maybe 20 years old, fresh from the academy by the looks of it. I ask if I am being charged with a crime and ask if I am being detained. He tells me to shut up and place my hands on the hood.

He then attempts to remove my 1911 from its holster. It's a G-Code XST holster, so it's a level 2 with a retention "canopy" over the hammer. He tries for like 60 seconds to get it out. I give him instructions how to get it out, hoping he doesn't shoot me in the foot. He eventually figures it out and draw the pistol and no shit, sweeps me with the barrel and has his booger hooker in the trigger guard. I carry my 1911 locked and loaded, so it did have the safety engaged, but... knowing how incompetent this guy already was, I was truly frightened I was going to get shot with my own gun. Oh meanwhile, two more of his buddies show up in cars, so now I have 3 cop cars pulled behind me for this fiasco.

He tells me to stay put and heads back to his car, where he unloads my pistol and takes out all of the ammunition from the magazine.

Then he comes back (the other officers just stood there and would not answer if they were a supervisor or if he was on the way) and asks if I have any more weapons. I did not. I ask him if he now wants to see my LTCH. He did finally and I showed it to him.

He then goes on a tirade about how I should have handed the gun over (making a completely safe situation unsafe in my opinion). He asks me why I was resisting. I told him I never resisted, only stated I did not consent to any of this and thought my rights were violated. If I had resisted, he would have DEFINITELY had a new definition of resisted. We talk back in forth for a bit (mostly him talking and me restraining my temper), where he continues to get increasingly belligerent and doesn't want to listen to a word I say. Eventually I'm allowed to get back into my truck and he places the handgun, magazine, and loose ammunition in my back seat.

The supervisor never showed up and it was over an hour stop. Today I went to the state police station and asked to talk to a supervisor. Surprise surprise, none were available. I lodged a formal complaint.

Sadly that's probably where it'll stop. I talked to a couple lawyer buddies, but they said there really was nothing worth doing legally. I really wish I had my phone out to record, but with how hostile he was I figured I'd get shot if I reached in my pocket to get it.

Deprived of an hour of my time, never charged with a crime or told I was detained for X reason, treated like a common criminal, and lectured by a thug who thought I had no right whatsoever to question "the law" (he referred to himself as such) or carry a handgun. Still surprised I held my temper, but what're you gonna do? There is absolutely nothing you can do. They got the badge and they know it.

I can tell you why this happened. You live in Indiana. Read this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/myths-and-misconceptions-_b_1596846.html

Anti and his fellow cop buddies in Indiana probably believe the hype their unions and other self-interest organizations spewed to them in training tell them anyone with a permit can now shoot them dead for a traffic stop.

I would wager a guess this is why you were treated this way. I'm shocked at how many police officers are actually ignorant of statutory law.

If you're interested, I could tell you about an attempt by the Placer County Sheriff, the FBI, Roseville Police Department and the ATF to enter a residence where I lived without a search warrant. It had nothing to do with me, they were after the owner of the house who I was simply renting a room from. I just happened to open the door when they knocked. It's a big part of the reason I can't stand LEO's, as a general premise.

That said, I still respect most of them and appreciate the job they do. Main reason I dislike cops? Because they expect civilians to play by the rules while simultaneously thinking they are exempt from the rules and bending them at every chance they get.

Also, you were smart for what you did. I personally would never remove my weapon. I would tell the cop to do it.

My thoughts, +1 on the 1911 carry, thats badass.. I cant even hold one correctly, you must have a bigger dick than me. Why are you admitting that you have a weapon? You just make things more dangerous for yourself by explaining or trying to do the legal thing here.. If you would have said "no" nothing would of happened and little diaper baby who missed the war in iraq would have gone about his day after fucking yours up with whatever ticket he dreamed up.
Ive had a cop not understand how to clear an AK platform.. And destroy my
Blueing attempting to clear..
Dont tell the fucking police you have a weapon, you motherfuckers think im
Stupid? Jesus Christ. Way too much faith in humanity if you think telling a cop you are legally carrying is smart.

It wasn't exactly easy to hide. He could see it from the window. I open carry my 1911, NEVER had an issue before. In Indiana you do not have a legal obligation to inform when approached by police. But you do have an obligation if asked... so if I said no he could have made my life more miserable.

For the record, I'm speaking as a human being with law enforcement experience on this one. I don't know his/their side of the story but if your story is true it's hilarious and disturbing.



Like G-Fist said, +1 for the 1911. -1 for the Trooper that doesn't know how to handle a level 2 retention holster...wtf?

I don't know laws in Indiana but this whole stop was WTF to me. If I wen't to Indiana on vacations (wtf why?) I wouldn't be carrying a weapon, but if something like this happened I would be on the verge of a fight...safety or not if someone flags me with a gun I will be pissed.

I know in CA you'd have a good to go lawsuit. There's a couple scenarios on my opinion:
1. His dispatch took over 15 minutes to run the plate/information (My argument here may be invalid if the mud was blocking letters on your plate and he was actually unable to run it). If the truck is registered to you, his dispatcher should be able to get all your information about your guns before he even lights you up. For me, I feel, and I think most of my partners would agree that ~30 minutes on something that's not a moving violation is unreasonable. If inquiry is backed up for me (assuming the plates came back ok), I'll walk back up to the vehicle, inform the driver why I pulled him over, why I'm letting him go (we're busy today with other calls), and to drive safe. I'd then 22 myself in line for inquiry. BECAUSE, if an arrest does come out of this it's unjustifiable why you were detained so long and that trooper won't be getting a high five from his sergeant when the DA's office calls to inform him what his trooper did was wrong.

2. His dispatch came back and informed him there were guns registered to you, so it's their policy he waits for cover (that's why I won't work for a department that has policy where you must have cover, I can handle my own stops). He waited, but had to know in the back of his head he already had an unnecessarily long stop for a covered license plate (although this shit is my pet peeve). The part I don't understand and think is unjustifiable would be the way he handled the gun. REASONABLE means what another person with equal training and experience would do in his situation. So if an arrest comes of this and a 1538 motion is filed...uh oh


I don't think it's an issue with "having a badge." I think you're right that it was probably a rookie cop, and the others were watching him learn.



Whether you realize it or not, filing complaints makes a difference. Both in the department, and in the court of law.


Again, this is all speculation as I wasn't there...and again, I don't know Indiana laws or policy.

http://aattp.org/nra-celebrates-another-...igned-into-law/


"The “Guns Everywhere Bill” removes security measures from weapons carrying licenses, as well, by eliminating the fingerprinting requirement. It also prohibits the state from maintaining database of people who are licensed to carry, and repeals licensing requirements for firearms dealers."

uh oh.. I guess that saying is true about 'so goes california...,' but it looks like Georgia is taking things a step further

Funny how Democracy works in your favor on this Teriya. Gun owners are getting more rights by the hour and they did it without violent protest or the barrel of a gun.

The absolute major issue with this law is carry in bars. I feel sorry for every Bouncer in Georgia. Drunk assholes with guns and your job is to control them.

I'm going to find an interview with a club owner in Georgia and see how they feel about guns in their establishments. My guess is the owner, the waitstaff, the bar tenders, the security and the DJ are against it.

Here is a good question for you though:

Should an owner of a private business be able to ban guns from his property, or do 2nd amendment rights override that?

This question drives Gun rights and Free Market people insane. They can't answer it without contradicting themselves.