Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Shits gettin real yo

Vermi, if you want to learn more about the sovereign nation movement and the FLDS then all you have to do is google bro. The guy in the first vid claims sovereign nation affiliation so it's not hard to do the math from there. They are also a group of Mormons so right wing they were excommunicated. This rancher in question made millions of dollars without paying a penny in taxes. I have a problem with that, as does the courts. Impeding the progression of a court order makes you a criminal, not a protester.

If you want an American system that allows people to use public land for profit without deed and then not pay tax, then get the fuck off my roads and stay out of my hospitals. Those are for tax paying citizens.

I'm just curious how much this whole operation is going to ultimately cost versus how much he owes in taxes. Seems like a bit of overkill just to prove the point that we won't stand for people not paying their taxes, especially if the operation to secure and auction the property costs more than the net of proceeds to the government for doing it in the first place. Couldn't the government just place a lien on his estate and wait for the fucker to die or something?

I'd love to see a cost/benefit analysis on this one! The cost of organizing this much government muscle (and the legal shit happening in the background) has to be staggering.

900 head of cattle, the size of his heard, is worth a little under 1 million. He owed $900,000 in unpaid taxes. His claim is based off the fact he doesn't believe in paying federal taxes. Had he paid his taxes none of this would be happening.

And then you add the cost of the operation, and the taxpayers lost even more money than if they had done nothing.

I'm not arguing whether his philosophical/legal views are valid or not, just looking at it from a purely practical standpoint.

Spin it all you want, you can't clench/raise your fists, shout at a police officer, get in his face, then assault a police dog when you get too close. When someone displays assaultive behavior do you just give them a big hug and kiss on the cheek vermi?

Anti, what the ever loving fuck are you talking about? Watch the video and then watch it again. The officer commands the dog to attack him. You can clearly see him point at the man and hear him issue a command at 1:04. I think it was stupid of him to kick the dog for criminal liability reasons, but I think he was justified in doing so in a black and white world.

If you think what went down in this video is appropriate, then I wish you'd never become a police officer and you are part of what's wrong with the law enforcement in this country. Your job is also to protect people man, not just to arrest people. That guy had no fucking weapon. Can you honestly tell me he posed any real threat to those 20+ officers who had two K-9's and 20+ firearms? The reality is what I see all the time in law enforcement. They come in with this billy bad ass military mindset that people WILL listen to them or they WILL suffer their wrath. YOU WILL COMPLY, right Anti-209?

Re: your last question, I already answered it in my post, but you omitted it from the quote. You tell me, you're a cop. If you responded to a call and I said well, I told the guy to move his quad and he got angry. So he started yelling at me and pointing and moved toward me, to within about 4 feet. I felt threatened at that point (even though me and my 20 friends standing around have sidearms on our hip and he doesn't), so I sicked my 100 lb trained attack dog on him. He kicked my dog, so I tazered him. Who would go to jail? If he was black, he might.

The three elements to self defense in California:

1. Reasonably believed that you were in imminent danger of being killed, injured, or touched unlawfully,

2. Reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent that from happening, and

3. Used no more force than was necessary to prevent that from happening.

Even if you COULD justify 1 and 2 based on what that guy did in the video (extremely questionable), you're going to sit here and tell me as a cop that the scenario in that video, if acted out among common citizens, would not CLEARLY violate # 3? How is sicking a trained 100 lb attack dog on a guy who is yelling a reasonable use of force? More importantly, THE COP IS WEARING A FUCKING GUN AND HAS 20 OTHER COPS AROUND HIM WITH GUNS!!!! Do you really believe he genuinely felt afraid of that unarmed man in that scenarior? I highly fucking doubt it, which calls into question # 1 above.

I don't think he felt threatened at all. I think him and his buddies were simply angry because that guy wasn't doing as he was being ordered to do and move his ATV.

I also have another question for you. How come a DIFFERENT officer from the one the man was approaching sicked the dog on him. The confrontation was between the man and an officer who had his tazer drawn already. If the man with the tazer felt threatened enough to resort to violence, why didn't he simply issue the man a warning or two (I'm going to taze your ass if you don't get out of my face) and then act on that warning if the man didn't back up?

Anyway man, I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this issue. Probably no point in debating it. I don't think for a second you're magically going to go, "Oh, I see your point!" My girlfriend is a correctional officer and we just had a similar debate last night in which she tried to rationalize peace officers lying in their reports to cover their ass. When she got to the end of her logical rope of justifying that crap, she resorted to the position of "They're just people like you, they make mistakes too." It became obvious we couldn't discuss this in the future because like you, she works in law enforcement and is extremely entrenched in her view.

All you said means nothing, I'm not sure if your bias is clouding your vision or I'm watching the wrong video of a guy that gets up in an officer's (or whatever he is) face and gets met with a reasonable level of force, if not a little less.

You're an absolute moron if that's how you think the world works Vermi. A person CANNOT charge a peace officer in an assaultive manner and expect them to just back up and go away.



So in your opinion the cops (or whatever the hell they are) should just leave and forfeit their jobs? They're there to do a job and people don't like it. They are met with a lot of verbal noncompliance. They make a determination that all the people screaming and shouting are getting each other riled up. They attempt to issue commands to control the masses to allow them to continue to peacefully assemble (AKA do their job). People ignore their commands, which they have a legal right to make because the "peaceful" assembly is escalating. They are met with assaultive behavior, and use an appropriate amount of force.

In the real world Vermi, someone charges a cop while shouting, with clenched fists, staring at him, and ignoring all of his commands. He's gonna go to the ground 9/10 times. I think the fact that there were so many people and cameras rolling that the initial officer didn't do anything until he kicked the dog.



No one gives a shit what you think at this point because you're so far out in left field. Although I'm sure everyone here thinks you're the expert for telling these guys how to do their jobs. I suppose all the officers took a step back because he was getting a better position to deploy his TASER...haha



I explained this above.



Happens every day dude, I don't understand what you think cops are supposed to do...The guy that committed the crime would go to jail, and the peace officer would go to the next call.

No offense Vermi, but you're a dip shit. Haha, I like you but you're misinformed and ignorant when it comes to this topic. Everything you're bringing into question was good to go in a court of law. The fact that there's 20 armed officers theres means to you that people can get more out of hand than they normally would? When you grab a hold of reality, let me know, then we can debate.

Badge and gun grants special privileges and extra rights. Like the right to crush free speech because government is telling you you're in the right for doing so. So are your 20 buddies with guns. Dont ask questions Vermi, comply. Doesn't matter that the officers being there is what escalated the situation, no officers, its just some small gathering of a bunch of hicks. "We need to protect the turtles guys, Stay. On. Your. Toes. Remember, if you have zero personal skills, didn't take speech or psycology in high school just deploy your tazers. 1, 2, 3 break!"

What a stupid thing to argue over.

They didn't pay their taxes. If they don't like the taxes go out and vote for someone who will get rid of them. If you don't pay your taxes you lose your shit. Simple as that.

I don't understand getting mad at law enforcement officers who are clearly not abusing their power in this situation. They didn't CHOOSE to be there, they were sent there to do a job. Put yourself in their shoes. What would you do if some crazy hick got in your face? Most of you would answer beat their asses to a bloody pulp.

The people mad in this situation are wrong. If you don't like the taxes, vote to change. No reason to be mad at an individual LEO when they didn't choose to be there, they were sent to do a job.



C'mon man. You're smarter than that.

If they let this one go then the next time a hick doesn't want to pay his taxes he will do the same thing until everyone decides to not pay their taxes.

Now do the cost benefit analysis of squashing this now before it becomes the norm and it makes good sense.

Laws are only as good as their enforcement.

cattle prices