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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301
Lord of Cluth Heals
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Lord of Cluth Heals
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301 |
Quote:
And just to emphasize what our competition is doing and why I am again on the right side of this issue:
China on Sunday announced a huge economic stimulus package aimed at bolstering its weakening economy and perhaps helping fight the effects of a global economic slowdown.
In a sweeping move at a time when major projects are being put off around the world, Beijing said it would spend an estimated $586 billion by 2010 on wide array of national infrastructure and social welfare projects, including constructing new railways, subways, airports and rebuilding communities devastated by an earthquake in southwest China in May.
The package, announced by the State Council Sunday evening, is the largest economic stimulus effort ever undertaken by the Chinese government and would amount to about 7 percent of the country?s gross domestic product during each of the next two years.
Beijing also said it was loosening credit and encouraging lending as part of a more ?pro-active fiscal policy.?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/world/...amp;oref=slogin
China's infrastructure is going to own ours and thus they will be eating our lunch in the future if we don't make similar investments. This isn't bailing out conglomerates, this is looking to the future, not next quarter's earnings report. And if you think China is a bunch of "commies", you should remove yourself from the debate as you simply don't get it.
but you make it sound like China is some uber developed nation. Outside of Shanghai and Beijing (hong kong and macao dont count) the major of the country is a complete sewer and shit pile.
They NEED to pour cash back into their infrastructure while they have it or face a potential revolution or get stuck in the same rut.
They are redeploying all of their cash reserves into infrastructure which is exactly what they should be doing. They NEED to create its own selfsustaing economy and country, much like the U.S. and a few other major countries.
Their economy is so dependent on outside growth and exportation of goods they will feel this credit crunch like the rest of the world. They also are facing potential huge problems in the inflation and unemployment front.
This is a theme that is characteristic of emerging markets in general. The 4 largest emerging markets are Russia, Brazil, China, and India. Two saw their success as the prices of commodities went north (China and Brazil) and two are socialist regimes who will not hesitate to nationalize industry to retain power (China and Russia). At least in India you have a tort system based on English law (no matter how slow and painful it may be)....
China will sure be an interesting story over the next 6 to 12 months. 300 million people moving into the city looking for jobs, growth slowing at an alarming pace, and a new US President.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,908
Weed Connoisseur
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Weed Connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,908 |
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Couple points, we have been socializing the risk and privatizing the profits for some time now. The competitive nature of America is not the idealized one you grew up with. In fact, we are a nation on the decline in the overall picture.
Secondly, massive wealth gaps cause social upheaval which lead to decreased opportunity. See the American gilded age and the era leading up the Great Depression. We keep needing to relearn this lesson. When CEOs make 500 times the pay of their average worker, there are problems. They certainly did not do 500 times the work regardless of how you calculate in college education.
Lastly, conservatives (yes. you are one, Bal, you know it) tend to focus on the "handout" aspect of wealth redistribution. This certainly is important to the short term ability to make ends meet for the laid off worker or the single mother or whatever. However, the more important part of wealth redistribution is funding start up grants for small businesses, investing in infrastructure, investing is schools, etc. These are the long term fundamentals that bring opportunity and competition which Republicans neglect especially in a down market (right now the banks won't give loans and are even afraid of loaning to each other so good luck if you need to make a capital investment in your business).
PS: wealth redistribution works both ways. For the past 30 years wealth has been redistributed upwards. Redistributing it downwards isn't socialism, it is resetting the tax code to be fair again.
If you're going to talk economics then you should at least apply the concept of supply and demand to CEOs. Despite what your perceptions may be of CEOs they are paid just like professional sports players because they have talents that are scarce among us. They are savy shrewd businessmen with decades of experience who have spent years making astute analysis while pleasing all the stockholders on the board. If they make the stockholders 1 billion dollars then you can't blame the CEO for getting paid 30 million (3%). If anything its royalties.
However I do agree with you on the tax break. The 39% marginal tax rate that Obama will make happen is really only going to hurt the .0001% wealthy. I mean even if you're lower upper class making say 260,000/year you're only going to pay about 500 dollars more as opposed to the current 34% Bush rate.
I don't necessarily think its our infrastructure we need to improve, but rather just offer more incentives in every area. The education system sucks not because of the lack of books but because the teachers are so low paid that they have no incentive to try to teach kids to learn. If they were making $100,000/year you could sure as hell bet theyd be more committed and excited to teaching more. We need to discourage our fuel consumption by offering more tax breaks or stimulus packages to people who don't emit a lot of co2 or use electricity. We need to do what China does and pay people more to have less babies. You don't hear a lot about single non married people in poverty do ya?
Keep in mind stretch wealth redistribution is an idea carried out by liberals (maybe such as yourself I don't know). The problem with liberals and if you take a look at say SF youll see that their second priority is to help out all the poor people but their first priority is to make sure the whole world knows that their trying to help out the poor people.
San Francisco has a thirdworld public transportation system thats inconsistent on time, overpopulated, littered with trash and crackhead degenerates yet we let the whole world know how our new solar system and energy cut backs will make us a greener loving city. Were filled with homeless and drug addicts yet we make sure to tell the whole world all about how accepting we are of one anothers.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301
Lord of Cluth Heals
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Lord of Cluth Heals
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301 |
Quote:
I guess the question is do you think our roads and highways are adequate? How about our (lack of) high speed rail? Are our bridges adequate and even safee? High speed internet, should we really be so behind? Are the ports prepared for the 21st century? Are we growing the right crops with the right rotations?
When you start to study this questions you begin to realize many of the answers are "No" and that we are closer to "third world" countries then maybe we have been led to believe. China's industrialization is an under told story. There are literally dozens of million person cities that have sprung up in the last 15 years with state of the art infrastructure.
oh im not debating the status of our infrastructure...we for sure need to focus on this as well as every other major country. Upgrades are needed and so are repairs.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,642
Adept
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Adept
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,642 |
Quote:
Lastly, conservatives (yes. you are one, Bal, you know it) tend to focus on the "handout" aspect of wealth redistribution.
Is fairness such a bad aspect to look at?
Quote:
However, the more important part of wealth redistribution is funding start up grants for small businesses, investing in infrastructure, investing is schools, etc.
You do not need wealth redistribution to help small business. Big government, socialism is not the answer. Investing in infrastructure is definitely a necessity, this is not wealth redistribution that was the intention of the land value tax. Schools need competition to improve. You are very anti-corporation yet you support the largest corporation in the United States, the teachers union.
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PS: wealth redistribution works both ways. For the past 30 years wealth has been redistributed upwards. Redistributing it downwards isn't socialism, it is resetting the tax code to be fair again.
Since you are pro fairness, lets move towards a flat consumption tax.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,196
LoD Groupie
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LoD Groupie
Joined: Jul 2001
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,642
Adept
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Adept
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,642 |
Like the fairness doctrine. I agree
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