Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Bailouts are an act of communism

i totally agree. democrats AND republicans agree. and i think to a certain extent Bernanke and Paulson agree...I guarantee you that Paulson just drew that up to stem off the issue as soon as possible. he is not a career politician in the least bit. he is an ex-goldman sachs guy who headed up their most ruthless area back in his day.....
flesh needs to be exchanged for any bailout...i am even in favor of addressing CEO and executive compensation.

Capitalism doesn't redistribute wealth, period. Capitalism that has been encroached on by socialist programs, entitlements, subsidies, tax shifts and redistributive programs creates a system to the highest bidder or largest voting base (poor-dependent class)
The problem with a privilege system (US is moving in this direction) is that the allocation of money from the public treasury fluctuates from the low/middle/upper classes. You happen to be a proponent of the lower and middle classes, as Paulson may be a proponent of his corporate buddies and cronies. Both systems are equally unfair as it takes from the pockets of the working class.
Small business propels this nation with its workforce, not the poor or upper classes.
Growing government creates a dependency class, which fosters a high incumbency rate to politicians that give handouts to this base of people. Our government was created to setup equal rules, on an equal playing field. Not redistribute the fruit of my labor to my neighbor.


We are suffering from a privilege system, one that lacks responsibility and accountability, as any screaming falls on deaf ears.

I am not arguing the fact that the bailout be necessary to keep the US economy afloat (that problem is so diverse and way over my head), but I am arguing and agree with Ron Paul that government intrusion created this mess.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/paul.bailout/index.html
When government is allowed to give special or preferential treatment, monopolies are created and competition is squashed as Freddie Mac & Mae are great examples.
Right or wrong, saving the economy or not. I would still contend that this is an act of communism.
I had no idea how bonds were traded.

see that is totally wrong.
Freddie and Fannie were created to provide stability to the home mortgage market and enable ALL PEOPLE to get loans. It provided a system where banks could wholesale sell their loans to a big organization to wrap them all up and create an efficient market. The governement support provided stability and a high assurance of credit. Without that implied (at the time implied) guarantee the cost of funding for a mortgage would like like 10-15% easy.
I like a lot of Ron Paul's statements and beliefs, but he is DEAD wrong on this.

Ludwig von Mises Institute
The Austrian economic models do not require or have a need for redistributive programs. I am not talking about anarcho-capitalism, because there is a need for taxation on many levels of government but only to maintain life, liberty and property. These forms of taxation are not redistributed, but are consumed by its users.

90% of your arguments are quoted articles based 100% on theory.
That's a real world fact.

There is no economic absolute that is in place as we speak, just hybrids that lean one way or the other.

the difference between what we are doing and socialism is that socialists nationalize profitable companies.
It's a tough situation, I don't think there is a palatable solution to any of this. This stems from Nixon breaking the gold standard, Clinton repealing Glass Steagall act, Bush taking it further, Congress rubber stamping etc... This mess is the product of both Dems & Repubs so pointing fingers either way is incorrect & a waste of time/effort. They are equally complicit.
No matter what is done, what is tried, what the solution is, it will be ugly and painfull for John Q Public in America. This cake was baked decades ago. The American public will pay for at least one generation to cover this mess. Chances are high that the mythical trillion being typed up on a computer at the fed will cause more inflation. This will weaken this country economically, militarily and weaken it's position in the world as a major player.
If this is not treaded carefully, we could see a wholesale depreciation of the US currency causing untold misery in the US and elsewhere.
Whatever is done, I hope it works for all of our sakes. I don't think this is a subject to play politics with. Playing politics with this is treasonous in my opinion.
Clean it up, patch it, get it so it doesn't collapse. Then find the culprits (CEO's, CFO's etc...) and strip them of their citizenship, sieze their personal assets and deport them to somalia or some other shithole. Now that would be a nice penalty and insurance so that it isn't done again.

Capitalism by definition has no redistribution system of taxation. 101 man

I disagree here. I think redistribution of wealth creates a slave class, allows government to take from the rich, decreases incentive while creating a dependent poor class through welfare, entitlements, redistribution's, subsidies and tax shifts.