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What if a semi kicked up a pebble into your eyeball?

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I for one can say a helmet will save your ass, I've had a full face bell helmet split into clean off my head after a car ran a red light, so yea I think they will save your head.

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That explains a lot... :P

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Good point, what about road debris Moose

[LoD]Rashanir #231099 06/20/06 05:03 AM
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When local statutes (on the state level) require it, i wear the following style of helmet: "half lid". My lid has a custom paint job on the back that reads "helmet laws suck". All my helmets (mine & my spares) are equiped with quick release latches because I don't want somebody to break my fucking neck should I survive an accident. Given the options - I'd rather die than be a vegetable.
For eyewear, I'm typically sporting very sturdy protective gear similar to these bad boys. These aren't the exact ones I have, but I've had mine for about 20 years now and can't find 'em online. You get the idea.
As stated previously, if I roll into a state where I can take the lid off, the bike stops and the lid comes off. So that my bald and very non-Fabio head doesn't get burned, I'll toss on a bandana.
Along those lines - kind of an amusing story about bandanas - I used to have several oversized-bandanas that were the typical dark blue color. One night I pulled up to a red light in a less-than desireable So.Cal area. A low-rider pulled up next to me on my right and I glanced over and noticed some bros - didn't think much of it and was checking out the rest of the intersection when I heard the sound of a shotgun pump coming from the low rider. Looked right and from the back seat behind the driver about 6" of barrel was pointed right at me through a half-open window. The driver advised me that he and his colleagues were of the opinion that my dew-rag was an unacceptable color. I shifted the bike into neutral so that my left hand was free and slowly removed the bandana and tossed it while saying something to the effect of "just a head-cover man, not a statement". The light turned green and I rolled. Some of you will say that's a bullshit story but that's exactly how it went down. That was a Saturday night - the next day I and some bros ran Trabuco Canyon. Made a bar stop and when one asked where my bandana was (this was a few years before CA passed the helmet law) I told the story. My boy Tommy laughed and said "now you know why I always wear pastel bandanas man" (which he did - never had asked him about it before). Moral of story - if you wear a bandana while riding - get over-sized ones and make sure they are not common gang colors.
Last piece of gear - leathers. I love it when some fag goes down the freeway on a rice-burner at 100+ in flip-flops, shorts, muscle shirt, and a $400 helmet. It's even better when the fag is white-lining and bites it. I always wear leather. I have a cold-weather set (thicker leather, insulated) and a warm-weather set (thin leather, non-insulated). Chaps + gloves + jacket = good.
Anyway, I'm not saying that all protective gear is a bad thing. Not true at all. I just find it amusing that most people just assume that motorcycle helmets save lives. To my best knowledge, there is no statistic that bears that out.
Moose


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i will not doubt that statistically helmets do not save lives based 100% on your statements (i really do believe ya). however, this argument started 'cause i felt big ben was a dumbass for not wearing a helmet.
after careful analysis i believe the following to be true:
1. big ben is not dead.
2. a helmet could have saved his dome some trauma.
3. non-fatal injuries have yet to be accounted for properly in your argument.
therefore, big ben is a dipshit.

#231101 06/20/06 04:36 PM
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Having a meaningful discussion about non-fatal injuries in motorcycle accidents is difficult because statistics can be difficult to obtain and also difficult to properly understand. The difficulty in obtaining is not that the information is not out there (thank you, Google!) but rather that there is so much information that you could spend 1000's of hours sifting through it. Also, as with all information (and this is why understanding can be difficult), you have to consider the source. Not all of us were Mathematics majors in college (turns out, I was) but the first thing you learn in statistical analysis is that a person can pretty much make statistics say anything they want. A huge amount of information is online at the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - www.nhtsa.gov) but alot of what I've read there over the past 12 hours is, frankly, very colored by bias.
An example of the bias I'm talking about: One NHTSA article strongly emphasizes the increase in motorcycle fatalities in Texas in 1998 (after helmet law repeal) versus in 1996 (with universal helmet law) - an increase of 30%. They also note that helmet use went down from 99+% in 1996 to 48% in 1998 and attribute that solely to the 30% fatality increase. However, they fail to mention that there was an increase of 24% in registrered motorcycles and that the bulk of those new registrations were in young males in the 16-25 year age bracket.
Again, you can make stats say whatever you want them to say.
Now, on to Big Ben. Check out this Pub Med article. Actually, all you can see in the URL is that the article exists and, if the issue is important to you, you can download the PDF file for $30 (US). I did - and it's a very interesting little 2-page medical abstract about a guy involved in an accident who was wearing a helmet. What is most interesting is that his paralysis was not due to spinal cord damage. Rather, he had at the time of accident soft tissue injury to the left side of his neck caused by his helmet strap. It appears that his accident actually caused nerve damage - the doctor writing the abstact compares it to a "failed hanging attempt" (ouch). Essentially, his spine itself is fine, but the left side of his body is paralyzed due to nerve damage in his neck:
Quote:
The clinical findings demonstrated which nerves had been injured, and where. The damaged nerves were on the left side of the neck and included: the spinal accessory nerve anterior to the sternomastoid, the hypoglossal nerve, the superior laryngeal nerve which supplies the cricothyroid muscle and the cervical sympathetic chain leading to pupillary miosis.
I don't know, and I personally do not belive that anybody in this world can say with 100% certainty, what would have happened if Ben had been wearing a lid. Maybe he would have been perfectly fine and walked away from the crash. Maybe he would have died from strangulation of the tongue before a medic could arrive to perform CPR. Maybe he would have ended up paralyzed like the poor fuck in this article.
One statistic on the NHTSA web site has to do with injury and fatality rates per mile traveled on a motorcycle versus in a car:
Quote:
motorcyclists were about 26 times as likely to die in a crash than someone riding in a passenger car, and are 5 times as likely to be injured
This goes back to what I previously said in this thread about the twinky - it's a fucking dangerous thing to do any way you look at it. I'm sure Big Ben is probably a dipshit. He's driving the fastest street bike available on the market with no license. He's gotta have about as much fucking grey matter as those footballs he throws around.
Moose


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While your two "helmets causing paralysis" examples do make a point; statistically speaking, are they significant? Is there a significant correlation between non-fatal accidents and helmets reducing/preventing injury? or vice versa, or is the data inconclusive?
I'm not concerned about fatal accidents, I believe you when you say that statistically, helmets don't save lives.
I personally don't care if someone chooses to wear a helmet or not. But, I am interested in the data.

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