Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Get rid of Income Tax? (Fairtax)

After hearing about this "fairtax" system to rid the IRS all together. I bought and am reading the book.
Imagine receiving your gross income every pay period? The word "Take Home" takes on a new meaning.
Fair Tax Website
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The Reason for Change!!!

23 cents per dollar. You spend more you pay more tax. Simple, easy and its puts more money in the pockets of the workers.
Maybe im fairly optimistic, but I like the fact more money will be in my pocket to spend how I please. Im for less government control.

Item (a) will now cost $1.32 on top of state sales tax, there will be a national sales tax.
Dollar store item
1.00
+.23 National Sales tax
.089 Wa State Sales tax
Still reading the book. If the economy goes south we will invade another country to steal their natural resources.
werd

The idea of putting a higher sales tax on items to offset an income tax to help the working man isn't going to solve the problem. It is simply going to shift it from one point to another. Think about it. I can see the point of being able to pay as you spend, rather than from earnings, but get real. Either way, poor people eat a dick while the rich will always find their percentages far better when looking at earnings as opposed to taxation. Solving the issue is a matter of modernizing and streamlining governmental processes so that the government runs more efficiently. If you wanted to really look at all aspects of government spending, I'm sure you'd see far more than you'd care in regards to monies going to areas this country does not directly benefit from. Want to make changes? Quit sitting on the sidelines bitching about the system and jump in and, at the very least, vote intelligently on all issues.

I am proactive.
For instance, its minor but I do not shop at Walmart. I spend my money at Mom-and-Pa restaurants and small business. Although I spend more money there, it is going for the better good. Its easy to do so because I live in a small town.
Its the same idea with national tax.
18 million people do not file tax, which ultimately is a burden on the tax payers.
11 million illegal aliens, (welfare, medical, jobs) which is a burden again on the tax payers. Please dont say illegals dont have jobs. INS snagged 5 illegals from Walmart and 2 from the Denny's about 5 months ago. Those are the only two I heard of because I know people that work at both.
Your hitting 29 million people in the United States that get away with paying tax. The population of the United States is 295,734,134. Which is roughly a little over 10% of the United States that does NOT pay tax.
Tax loop holes, how many large companies or wealthy people find loop holes. Who supplements the loss? We do.
Corporate tax does not affect the corporation because it bleeds down to the consumer, once again burdening us. If a new tax arises for corporation (A) then the company simply raises the product that they sell to compensate for loss. Its the consumers burden.
Social Security: The retaxed tax that is given to retirees
Medicare tax: Illegals and people that do not have health insurance pawn it off on the tax payers.
We will not change these social programs but in fact put more money in the consumers pocket, allowing them to either save, spend and decided what they want to do with the extra money.
The absolute only difference is simple, you get to spend the money on what you want. It will be taxed and in the end bills will be paid.
We can complain about this new system, and how it might not work or we can maintain with our current broken system. Have any solutions?
Im sold on this fairtax solution.

That's great. However, its not voting and its not taking part in government at all levels.

And your point? Nothing will ever change in regards to that. Unless anarchy comes to modern times, you'll never not see a corporate, trade or industry related tax. So much is subsidized by corporate taxes. For instance, in Texas, we still do not have a state income tax due to oil and gas industry revenue.

Social Security is a one of the few legacies still left from the New Deal. Its not something you can start, then take away. Progressive ideas are going to change this, its just a matter of how long we have to wait.
The very same complaint you have in regards to illegals is the very same solution to the problem itself. Illegals come here to work and a large percentage of those jobs are paying into the very same fund. I can't pretend to know whether its enough to balance, dollar for dollar, what is going out through Medicare. That said, I can guarantee that get a large amount of revenue from other dollars that they put back into other tax catergories.

I haven't read the book and more than likely never will. I simply do not like the premise. It seems simple to me that this idea goes completely in the wrong direction. Not only is it not a viable solution, it would cause huge problems and lack any true fairness to social structure. The idea of tax is that it is supposed to be structured so that all are putting in their fair share. Our current system is far from perfect, but this idea is perfectly wrong.
A step in the right direction is to allow a certain percentage of your tax dollars to be allocated towards general areas of spending at your discretion. This system would naturally not include spending towards basic and essential government functions such as education and such. On top of this, we have 3rd party auditing performed on governemental divisions to address efficiency in regards to budgets. Simply, cut out the gross fat. Many government agencies have operating structures and technology that has barely changed in over 75 years.
Think about it. Don't take the author's philosophy for the gospel.

I may have missed something so feel free to correct me if I misunderstood but here is how I see it.
The main problem I have with any sales tax system such as this one is the fact that the rich don't spend all of their income but the poor HAVE to... just to get by.
This means that the poor guy making $30k working working in the mailroom at Morgan Stanley pays $.23 on 100% of every dollar he earns but the trader who makes a million but only spends $200k pays $.23 on only 20% of his earnings.
Seems pretty unfair to me and will also limit mail room guys ability to save for his kids, education etc, while putting more money in the traders hands. I think in the end it hurts the worker and helps the rich.
Tich

the whole marginal propensity to save and what not.

I'm a great fan of flat tax. However it can never fly.
There is too much economy and lobby power set in the financial industry. There is too much opportunity for exclusions and special cases which renders it dead on arrival.
If you give poverty a tax break, then where do you set that thresh hold. What happens to that juicy mortgage interest on schedule A, and all those homeowners.
I would love to see it, however there would be too much pressure from special interest groups to let it fly.

let me explain how this works.
First the rich do not get taxed in the current tax codes! The rich wrote the tax codes and know how to get around them!
there are over 20,000 pages of the current tax codes and regulations. Wow who knows whats going on.
The fair tax would get rid of that.
currently there is a 22% embedded tax so the 23% sales tax is actually only 1% more but wait 22% embedded+6% sales = 28% tax THATS MORE. (example of embedded tax: Employers have to match the income tax of the employee. How they make this up? by raising prices! so whats going to happen prices will stay the same but you will have more money in your pockets) BTW the rich do not pay the 22% they only pay the 6% sales so if you wanna hit the rich you put make a larger sales tax! 1 in 3 rich people did not have to work to get rich either so they never paid income tax.
Outsourcing will come back to the states because the the taxes will not be killing the company any longer.
Drug dealers and aliens will be paying taxes!
Ever hear of proration? well with the fair tax you do not get taxed for the things you need. there is a calculation on how much you make and what you would need depending on your situation and you will recieve a check in the mail reimbursing you for the things you need every week! thats amazing right the rich wont get anything and the poor will get everything. The rich spend more they will be taxed more. the poor buy less they will get taxed less.
People like me who are under the poverty lvl but dont get reimbursment from the gov will benifit because i can save my money and spend it on the things i need like paying my mortgage electric bill. i went a summer and a winter without heating and air because i was broke thanks to the income tax! if i would of had that extra few hundred dollars i coulda gotten it fixed. im 22 married and own my own home. i get no help from the gov. i work in a restraunt. I WANT MY GD MONEY! i am under poverty lvl and i deal with it i cant have the nice things. I just want to pay my bills.
Now i do understand it might hurt the ballas who would rather buy escalades ad a nice wardrobe then feed there children. Well get over it im sick of paying for your escalade!
NO IRS WEEEEEEEE, NO FILLING TAXES WEEEEE, NO SPENDING MONEY ON ACCOUNTANTS AND THE IRS WEEEEEEEEE, SIMPLE TAX CODE WEEEEEEE
Read the FAIR TAX book you will learn something. there is nothing bad you can say about it! BTW Fair tax and flat tax are two diffrent things. Theres alot more to it so read it!
PS play SB on the lore server its going to be fun!