Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Bush has my vote for 2 reasons

or can't handle a democracy?
Could you insult them any further? They are just like you or I.
England was a monarchy for centuries but they handled democracy just fine.
Scotland was as tribal as any nation could be.
Japan was as religiously fanatic as any nation ever has been, but they embraced democracy.
The list goes on. Iraqis are no different than you or I.
How do you conduct a poll in pre-war Iraq with Saddam in control? Weren't 4 million exiles enough? How about 300,000+ in mass graves. Wasn't that enough of a poll for you?
Face it, if people like you were in charge, Saddam would still be in power. There is no other conclusion to be drawn.
Never learned your lesson from Munich.

When did I ever say Abu Nidal was Al Qaeda? Stupid fuck, learn to read.
Yes, he was the head of the Abu Nidal terrorist group. He was their leader, it was his name.
Are you seriously this fucking stupid? Because I am laughing my ass off.

better yet, go to your library, open a fucking book, and learn something so you can actually know what you are trying to debate.
"THERE WAS NO QUESTION in our minds that there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda." -Thomas Kean, Chairman of the 9/11 Commission

Never was in Munich, so you must have me confused with someone else.
Don't put your spin on it and turn it into "golly gosh arioch, you are insulting them".
We're not talking about England, Scotland, Japan or any other country. Don't try the deflection trick either.
Spin spin spin...you're the logic DJ!
They can't handle a democracy, expecially when imposed on them. This is just the same as we couldn't handle a muslim theocracy imposed on us.
4 of 18 provinces are out of control, that is like having an election in the US and 12 states don't get a chance to vote. In order for that vote to have a chance of acceptance there, you need to give everyone a chance to vote.
Rumsfled said that is not necessary, but I agree with Powell who says it is. If 1/4 of the country doesn't get to vote, then they will not accept the elected party easily.
Sunni's are talking a general veto of the election. That path leads to civil war. Civil war that seems to be generally viewed as a high potential except for the views of your "No Nation Building" president.
Now go quote something, it'll make ya feel better.

But when a large amount of the populace does not want democary then you have war.
It is funny that you think they want they same thing you have, they sit at home watching CNN and such.
Japanese people and their culture are much different then a Muslim country and its laws. But hey apples oranges and pears right. They all want the same thing, to be in AMerican Applie Freedom Pie.

Jobu not everything you say is wrong, but alot of it is. You think not about how an Iraqi views the world or culture then post what they want, but think about what YOU want and are use to then post.

Like what book sir, gimme one to read that makes your point.

Perhaps if you didn't try to use various NON related terrorist issues to promote the attack in Iraq.

that is what you said. Ok, but that does not give a reason for invasion now does it. Since
1] gave you link to 9/11 commission site, asked for where you got the links you found none.
2] When asked how Iraq had been in bed with AQ , you have mulitple times satted decade long meetings. Where is this info.
3] You then state and this is above right , how PLO , or Arab Relations vs Jew relations have led to bloodshed and war, yes it happens, you through your posts have stated the 9/11 and such attackers also were paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel/Palestine , I don't isreal/palestine .. never seen a jew bomber , tanks and planes dropping missles yes but bombers now.
Anyways, you will throw in any unrelated shit to make a point, or use many people unrelated to prove the need for war.

There were plans developed by Wolfowitz to take over Iraq dating back to 1997. He advocated a very agressive pre-emptive strategy that was focused on removing Saddam from power. He had no luck convincing Clinton to adopt the plan so he had to wait for the Bush administration. Their plan involved reforming the Middle East through transforming Iraq into a free-market globalized economy. They thought it would be a gradual process unless there were "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."
For more read here http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html
Fast forward to september 11th 2001. We are attacked by Al Qaeda 2 days later Wolfowitz begins discussions with the president about attacking Iraq.
We went to Afghanastan (something the entire world supported because the ties to 9/11 were clear). While we were there wolfowitz and Rumsfeld were planning the Iraq war.
But why delay going to Iraq you may ask... White House chief of staff Andrew Card told The New York Times ``From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August.'' http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/12/schneider.iraq/
So we rollout our new product and it is based on WMDs, but the world isn't buying at the UN security council so we decide to go in anyway and we kick some serious ass. Fucking crushed Saddam. What's next for the Iraqi people? Democracy and freedom? Well maybe.... You see the Neocon's have a plan for that as well.
The neocons all belive in the gospel of Milton Friedman who hasn't ever seen an economy that couldn't use less regulation. Well what better place to test free-market theory out than Iraq. It is a virual Tabula Rasa! A perfect laboratory for proving that free-markets are the best markets.
Unfortunately Jay Garner (the original coallition leader of Iraq who did an amazing job in helping the Kurds form a democracy in N. Iraq http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/04/07/timep.governor.tm/) doesn't want to go along with their paln and his recommendations for elections in 90 days get him promptly fired from the post and the job is handed over to Paul Bremmer. http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=320&row=1
Bremmer quickly privatizes all industries creates a flat tax system, and opens up the borders for bidding and investment from around the world. http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html
Unfortunately things don't go as planned. All of those govt. workers who got fired to be replaced by private industry are mad and they start a revolution....which is getting worse each day.
Based on these events it is my belief that the Bush administration declared war on Iraq in an attempt to reshape the Middle East for a variety of economic and secuirty reasons. It had very little to do with WMD's, terrorism, or helping the people of Iraq.
You may believe that this is a good reason to go to war. I have friends who do. I personally don't think that it is worth 1000+ american allied lives, 10,000 injured and 30,000+ Iraqi lives. In addition I am VERY disturbed by the fact that the President was not honest in his explanations about the reasons for going to war, and continues to mislead the public to this date.
Don't kid yourself about the reasons for the war. It is pretty clear why we went and if you are OK with that then Bush is your man.

NT

Whoever said it had to be American-style democracy anyway?
What makes you think Iraqis don't want a democracy, the few thousand insurgents and terrorists in a country of over 20 million?
The more you post, the more you confirm how stupid you are.