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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,429
LoD Groupie w/ privileges
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OP
LoD Groupie w/ privileges
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,429 |
Lose 74 billion earn 38 Maybe I am missing something, but how is it that when these companies have record bad years the people who do the investing get record bonuses? What am I missing?
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301
Lord of Cluth Heals
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Lord of Cluth Heals
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301 |
In fact the Republican party is a major beneficiary in such a system.
hilarious
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,317
Lord of Whaaaaat
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Lord of Whaaaaat
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,317 |
What we really need to worry about is Arabian assassins performing a coupe de tat and killing the president and everyone in congress. We have to be very cautious about them entering our borders through the landstrip that connects the United States and Pakistan.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301
Lord of Cluth Heals
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Lord of Cluth Heals
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301 |
i have been a bear for over 18 months, read the forums. Arioch and i have predicted this to a T.
your blanket statement that "Republicans have benefited the most" is just complete bullshit. If you knew anything about Wall Street and the bankers, you would k now that the majority (especially in Manhattan and Wall Street) is largely Democratic.
The major banks have supported Dems and Pubs pretty much even...
If you think that those banks are the reason to blame for the sub-prime mess, you are wrong...
Also, those firms will for sure be firing and cutting the heads off of those who bought those positions in the first place. Where did you note that the CEO of ML, Bear, Citigroup, soon to be Lehman, are all out of jobs already. Those bonuses are going to the parts of the firm that made money, enough to bail out the rest of the firm for those bad bond positions. If you dont pay them, they walk right across the street to the firms that will. It is more responsible to pay out the bonus to keep the talent, than to lose the talent.....
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,468
Lord Bald Plums
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Lord Bald Plums
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,468 |
Standing behind an uneducated statement because you won't admit wrong just makes you look foolish.
The ability to admit you make mistakes is a strength, not a weakness.
[LoD]Couls
Lord Bald Plums
"Judas" The new Stretch since 2010!
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,895
Lord of Muffins
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Lord of Muffins
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,895 |
I constantly make mistakes!
Quidge
LoD-4-Life
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301
Lord of Cluth Heals
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Lord of Cluth Heals
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301 |
What rosy scenario are you expecting?
You are completely way off base with the comment that this benefits republicans..
Heads and jobs are rolling on wall street and brokerage firms around the world due to the sub-prime situations.
you have ZERO clue of what you are talking about....
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,850
Lord of Cruelty
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Lord of Cruelty
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,850 |
Enron, Tyco etc.... were totally different situations. They were internally corrupt (yes, Enron had Bush in their pocket. Big business buys politicians for a reason). They were no different than a crack whore trying to juggle 20 maxed credit cards and rent. Eventually that gig is up.
The subprime mess (Khell and I saw this 2 yrs ago) was due to something totally different. It was Greenspan dropping the fed rate to near zero. Whether he was pressured by politicians is merely conjecture with no factual backing. I suspect he got cought with his pants down.
The main culprit is the collusion between rating agencies and the big wall street houses. The "quants" they used to magically create CDO's showed mathematical risks which were so far off reality it was unreal. Nobody stopped to admit common sense. What they called a 6th sigma event was really called "joe cant afford his mortgage which just adjusted, and nor can his neighbour".
The ratings agencies got paid by the big houses (goldman, bear stearns, jp morgan etc...) to rate these bonds. They were "paid" to give good ratings. That is were the rub is, they were not impartial. They needed more mortgages to package into toxic waste, thus the mortgage brokers got in on it. They added the RE agents. RE agents got the appraisers into it. RE agents got joe public into it. Then the whole pile of them discovered NINJA loans (NINJA = No Income, NO Job or Assets).
This "subprime mess" is not just a subprime mess. It extends to leveraged buyouts, prime debt, commercial paper, everything. If you think we are in the thick of the downturn, I am sorry to inform that we are just getting out of the first inning. The snowball is just starting to roll.
When all those bonds get re-rated, watch the pension funds be forced to dump them. So far they have been "mark to mystery", but at the end of the day they will be assigned a value.
These rocket scientists who dreamt this crap up bought all the politicians from both parties.
 "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Einstein.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301
Lord of Cluth Heals
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Lord of Cluth Heals
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301 |
Enron, Tyco etc.... were totally different situations. They were internally corrupt (yes, Enron had Bush in their pocket. Big business buys politicians for a reason). They were no different than a crack whore trying to juggle 20 maxed credit cards and rent. Eventually that gig is up.
The subprime mess (Khell and I saw this 2 yrs ago) was due to something totally different. It was Greenspan dropping the fed rate to near zero. Whether he was pressured by politicians is merely conjecture with no factual backing. I suspect he got cought with his pants down.
The main culprit is the collusion between rating agencies and the big wall street houses. The "quants" they used to magically create CDO's showed mathematical risks which were so far off reality it was unreal. Nobody stopped to admit common sense. What they called a 6th sigma event was really called "joe cant afford his mortgage which just adjusted, and nor can his neighbour".
The ratings agencies got paid by the big houses (goldman, bear stearns, jp morgan etc...) to rate these bonds. They were "paid" to give good ratings. That is were the rub is, they were not impartial. They needed more mortgages to package into toxic waste, thus the mortgage brokers got in on it. They added the RE agents. RE agents got the appraisers into it. RE agents got joe public into it. Then the whole pile of them discovered NINJA loans (NINJA = No Income, NO Job or Assets).
This "subprime mess" is not just a subprime mess. It extends to leveraged buyouts, prime debt, commercial paper, everything. If you think we are in the thick of the downturn, I am sorry to inform that we are just getting out of the first inning. The snowball is just starting to roll.
When all those bonds get re-rated, watch the pension funds be forced to dump them. So far they have been "mark to mystery", but at the end of the day they will be assigned a value.
These rocket scientists who dreamt this crap up bought all the politicians from both parties. give this man a prize...
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301
Lord of Cluth Heals
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Lord of Cluth Heals
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,301 |
The ratings agencies got paid by the big houses (goldman, bear stearns, jp morgan etc...) to rate these bonds. They were "paid" to give good ratings. That is were the rub is, they were not impartial. They needed more mortgages to package into toxic waste, thus the mortgage brokers got in on it. They added the RE agents. RE agents got the appraisers into it. RE agents got joe public into it. Then the whole pile of them discovered NINJA loans (NINJA = No Income, NO Job or Assets). I read a great letter from Howard Marks (he runs Oaktree Capital - one of the largest most successful hedge funds ever existing...he was running hedge fund strategies in the 50s) who made the case that the Home Appraiser is the #1 culprit to the current housing mess 1) 75% are uneducated past high school. Those that are, do not do finance or true valuation for a living, just do it to add extra income 2) Almost none of them had prior real estate experience before entering the field 3) test to be an appraiser is easier than getting a GED 4) they are subject to influence and bias from mortgage companies and lenders, no "true" 3rd party vaulation in almost every deal. 5) Appraisals only occur every 18-24 months. All that goes into an appraisal is recent area comps and a quality check to make sure nothing is broken Quite the theory and i do buy part of it....
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